Have I translated this sentence correctly from the German?

[edmont]

Here is the passage, and the parts in bold are in question. This is a professor talking to an audience of workers during the 1918 German Revolution:


Die Hauptstreitfrage ist immer wieder: Nationalversammlung oder nicht Nationalversammlung? Sie wollen das Bürgertum ausschließen, weil Sie glauben, es würde beim Neuaufbau des Staats nicht mitmachen. Es gibt aber auch unter dem Bürgertum Idealisten, und das Bürgertum hat genau wie Sie unter dem Krieg gelitten und auch genauso die Opfer im Feld getragen. Der kleine Mittelstand, der nicht organisiert ist, hat sogar mehr gelitten. (Sehr richtig!) Das muß festgestellt werden. Auch ich als Professor habe gestern mit Neid gesehen, daß gerade auf unabhängiger Seite gestern dicke Speck- und Butterbröter verzehrt wurden (Heiterkeit und Zustimmung). Meine Herren, wir müssen uns zu positiver Arbeit zusammenschließen, und die Bürger haben auch heute den guten Willen, mit aufzubauen.


Is it possible to translate kleine Mittelstand as "lower middle class" here?


For the bolded German sentence, I have this English version:

Even I as professor have yesterday with envy seen precisely from an independent viewpoint thick bacon sandwiches and buttered bread consumed (audience merriment and approval).


I take it the professor is wittily bringing a double meaning to "an independent perspective" -- 1) he is quite objective and impartial 2) and painfully so, as he could not participate in the meal he was observing, so in a sense painfully not objective!


But I may have completely misunderstood the German.  Let me know what you think, and thank you for any assistance.

[Duckduck]

Here is the passage, and the parts in bold are in question. This is a professor talking to an audience of workers during the 1918 German Revolution:


Die Hauptstreitfrage ist immer wieder: Nationalversammlung oder nicht Nationalversammlung? Sie wollen das Bürgertum ausschließen, weil Sie glauben, es würde beim Neuaufbau des Staats nicht mitmachen. Es gibt aber auch unter dem Bürgertum Idealisten, und das Bürgertum hat genau wie Sie unter dem Krieg gelitten und auch genauso die Opfer im Feld getragen. Der kleine Mittelstand, der nicht organisiert ist, hat sogar mehr gelitten. (Sehr richtig!) Das muß festgestellt werden. Auch ich als Professor habe gestern mit Neid gesehen, daß gerade auf unabhängiger Seite gestern dicke Speck- und Butterbröter verzehrt wurden (Heiterkeit und Zustimmung). Meine Herren, wir müssen uns zu positiver Arbeit zusammenschließen, und die Bürger haben auch heute den guten Willen, mit aufzubauen.


Is it possible to translate kleine Mittelstand as "lower middle class" here? I suppose you can, although the British class system differs from the German Gesellschaftsystem.


For the bolded German sentence, I have this English version:

Only yesterday, even I as (a) professor saw with envy that (ironically just) on the independent side thick bacon sandwiches and buttered bread were consumed (audience merriment and approval).



I take it the professor is wittily bringing a double meaning to "an independent perspective" -- 1) he is quite objective and impartial 2) and painfully so, as he could not participate in the meal he was observing, so in a sense painfully not objective! Sorry, but not really...


But I may have completely misunderstood the German.  Sorry to say you have, edmont.
The professsor's speech was directed against the SPD which was then divided into the MSPD (M -> majority) and the USPD (U -> unabhängig/independent => independent side / unabhängige Seite). The SPD - as the working man's party - is described as being anti-Mittelstand, as if only workers had suffered in WW I. But the professor - well-educated and of course member of the middle class - had to watch the politicians representing the underpriviledged having a delicious meal. 


Let me know what you think, and thank you for any assistance.

Grüße
Duckduck

[tiorthan]

Is it possible to translate kleine Mittelstand as "lower middle class" here?

I don't think that's a good translation "lower middle class" refers to socioeconomic station of people but "Kleinerer Mittelstand" refers to small companies that are owned privately by middle class people.

[edmont]

duckduck and tiorthan, thank you, responses below

duckduck said

The professsor's speech was directed against the SPD which was then divided into the MSPD (M -> majority) and the USPD (U -> unabhängig/independent => independent side / unabhängige Seite). The SPD - as the working man's party - is described as being anti-Mittelstand, as if only workers had suffered in WW I. But the professor - well-educated and of course member of the middle class - had to watch the politicians representing the underpriviledged having a delicious meal. 

duckduck, I should have realized the professor might be referring to the USPD.  The info I have at the moment is that the professor is speaking to a "plenary assembly of worker councils of greater Stuttgart." But is it certain the professor is referring to the USPD?


Anyway, assuming that is what the professor means, I guess most of the workers listening to the professor are MSPD and fewer are USPD? Do you happen to know the composition of that particular audience?


The MSPD as I understand it was sort of center-left, the USPD was further to the left than the MSPD.


So duckduck, based on what you said, I guess the professor's statement is

1) a criticism of the USPD leadership's hypocrisy for eating better than many workers can -- maybe most in the professor's audience are MSPD members


2) the professor's criticism of the USPD leadership is also an appeal to the MSPD to accept middle class people, who like himself have suffered and have lacked food just like workers.


Do you agree with #1 and #2?


To tiorthan, thank you --


I have noticed that kleine Mittelstand is usually translated as small company, or the like. I guess that in 1918 "lower middle class" would probably use "unter" rather than "klein." 


Anyway, taking your advice, I translate something like this:


“The main point in dispute again and again is, national assembly or no national assembly? You want to exclude the middle class, because you believe it would not cooperate with the construction of the new state. But there are idealists also among the middle class, and the middle class has suffered exactly as you have from the war and has also equally borne casualties in the field. The small business class [kleine Mittelstand], which is not organized, has suffered even more. (audience member: Very true!) That must be realized. Only yesterday even I as a professor saw with envy that precisely on the independent side [the USPD side] thick bacon sandwiches and buttered bread were consumed (audience merriment and approval). Gentlemen, we must join together in positive work, and the middle-class citizens also have today the good will to build together.”


With the above translation, the professor says: 1) the middle class have suffered as much as the worker. 2) The small business class has suffered even more.


How does one understand the distinction between "the middle class" which suffered a lot, and the "small business class", which suffered even more?  Is that the distinction between professionals (like the professor, doctors, lawyers) on the one hand, and on the other hand small entrepreneurs?


Thank you very much again for any assistance.

[tiorthan]

To tiorthan, thank you --

I have noticed that kleine Mittelstand is usually translated as small company, or the like. I guess that in 1918 "lower middle class" would probably use "unter" rather than "klein." 

You are right in 1918 terms. "Klein" makes it clear that it means small businesses (like mom-and-pop stores or as we say in German Tante-Emma-Laden).

However, German has developed a bit and nowadays only Swiss German still uses the Term Mittelstand for middle class. In the rest of Germany we use Mittelstand for businesses and Mittelschicht for middle class.

How does one understand the distinction between "the middle class" which suffered a lot, and the "small business class", which suffered even more?  Is that the distinction between professionals (like the professor, doctors, lawyers) on the one hand, and on the other hand small entrepreneurs?

In this specific case it's clear from the context. Otherwise it would have to be spelled out.

[edmont]

tiorthan, thanks!


I just remembered an expression -- "petite bourgeoisie" -- and the variant, "petty bourgeoisie" -- which are reminiscent of "kleine Mittelstand."


I'm thinking that instead of "small business class", which is ambiguous, "petty business class" might work. But "petty" today has a pejorative meaning in English. So maybe "the class of little business owners" -- or "the class of owners of little businesses."