seeking help with "ließ" and "als erster" in a sentence

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edmont
Story Teller
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Registriert: 7. Nov 2016 14:44
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seeking help with "ließ" and "als erster" in a sentence

Beitrag von edmont »

I'm not clear about "ließ" and "als erster" in the German sentence,

So ließ er [the factory owner], als erster in Württemberg, einen Betriebsrat wählen.
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LIEß:
Does grammar or syntax tell which of the two English versions below is correct? Or only context can tell?


A) Thus he permitted a works council to be elected -- this was a first in Württemberg.

OR

B) Thus he had workers elect a works council -- this was a first in Württemberg.

--------------------------------------------------

ALS ERSTER:
Does it mean:


1) he was the first person in Württemberg to allow/have a works council elected, or

2) it was the first works council elected in Württemberg, or

3) it was the first works council elected in Württemberg.

Thank you for any assistance.




Adrox98
Topic Talker
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Registriert: 6. Jan 2017 00:20
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Re: seeking help with "ließ" and "als erster" in a sentence

Beitrag von Adrox98 »

LIEß:

"ließ" is the präteritum tense of "lassen"
A seems to be correct

ALS ERSTER:

1) he was the first person in Württemberg to allow/have a works council elected <-- right

Correct me if I amn't right

Duckduck
Anglo Master
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Registriert: 1. Okt 2009 14:25
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Re: seeking help with "ließ" and "als erster" in a sentence

Beitrag von Duckduck »

edmont hat geschrieben:
I agree with Adrox' answer but I thought you might like a kind of explanation, so I'll try.
:rolleyes:


I'm not clear about "ließ" and "als erster" in the German sentence,


So ließ er [the factory owner], als erster in Württemberg, einen Betriebsrat wählen.
--------------------------------------------------

LIEß:
Does grammar or syntax tell which of the two English versions below is correct? Or only context can tell?


A) Thus he permitted a works council to be elected -- this was a first in Württemberg.
It probably was the first, but this is not expressly stated in the sentence. The factory owner was only the first one to allow the election (see below).
OR

B) Thus he had workers elect a works council -- this was a first in Württemberg.
Theoretically it could mean the above as well, but then you would probably find the object "die Arbeiter" in the German sentence So ließ er, als erster in W.,
die Arbeiter einen Betriebsrat wählen.
--------------------------------------------------

ALS ERSTER:
Does it mean:


1) he was the first person in Württemberg to allow/have a works council elected, or

2) it was the first works council elected in Württemberg, or

3) it was the first works council elected in Württemberg.

1. The information given between the commas , als erster in W., refers to the preceding er. You can tell because
a) it immediately follows it and
b) if it referred to einen Betriebsrat, it would have to be in the accusative case. -> So ließ er, als ersten in W., einen Betriebsrat wählen. 

2. If the information referred to wählen, it would be expressed differently -> So ließ er, zum ersten Mal in W., einen Betriebsrat wählen.

Thank you for any assistance.
Cheers,
Duckduck
Mein Farbcode für Korrekturen:
Fehler / Stil/Ausdruck / Anmerkung

edmont
Story Teller
Beiträge: 270
Registriert: 7. Nov 2016 14:44
Muttersprache: English

Re: seeking help with "ließ" and "als erster" in a sentence

Beitrag von edmont »

Adrox98 and Duckduck, thank you!  Both of you so helpful. I much appreciated the grammar lesson from Duckduck too!

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